Comments on: How to “Win” a War http://peteashdown.org/journal/2006/08/31/how-to-win-a-war/ Fast Forward the Future Sun, 15 Jan 2012 20:08:30 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1 By: slc http://peteashdown.org/journal/2006/08/31/how-to-win-a-war/comment-page-1/#comment-9819 slc Thu, 02 Nov 2006 16:54:10 +0000 http://peteashdown.org/journal/?p=94#comment-9819 To clarify, I AM concerned FOR "those willing to risk their lives to cast their vote". I re-read above and realized it could be taken the wrong way. To clarify, I AM concerned FOR “those willing to risk their lives to cast their vote”. I re-read above and realized it could be taken the wrong way.

]]> By: slc http://peteashdown.org/journal/2006/08/31/how-to-win-a-war/comment-page-1/#comment-9818 slc Thu, 02 Nov 2006 16:49:35 +0000 http://peteashdown.org/journal/?p=94#comment-9818 70% turnout is impressive, no doubt. My concerns regarding putting the decision to stay or leave on the shoulders of the Iraqi people, are not so much about those willing to risk their lives to cast their vote. I am, however concerned about the integrity of the process. In my mind, what <a href="http://www.tni.org/fellows/bennis.htm" rel="nofollow">Phyllis Bennis</a> said of the 2004 elections in Iraq needs to be taken into account here: "An election cannot be legitimate when it is conducted under foreign military occupation; when the country is nominally ruled by, and the election will be officially run by, a puppet government put and kept in place by the occupying army and the election will be under the ultimate control of the occupying army..." <a href="http://www.zmag.org/content/showarticle.cfm?SectionID=15&ItemID=6899" rel="nofollow">znet</a> 70% turnout is impressive, no doubt. My concerns regarding putting the decision to stay or leave on the shoulders of the Iraqi people, are not so much about those willing to risk their lives to cast their vote. I am, however concerned about the integrity of the process.

In my mind, what Phyllis Bennis said of the 2004 elections in Iraq needs to be taken into account here:

“An election cannot be legitimate when it is conducted under foreign military occupation; when the country is nominally ruled by, and the election will be officially run by, a puppet government put and kept in place by the occupying army and the election will be under the ultimate control of the occupying army…” znet

]]> By: Pete Ashdown http://peteashdown.org/journal/2006/08/31/how-to-win-a-war/comment-page-1/#comment-9402 Pete Ashdown Mon, 30 Oct 2006 17:40:27 +0000 http://peteashdown.org/journal/?p=94#comment-9402 The chaos is starting to grow, but the interesting thing about the past three elections in Iraq is that they were unplagued by chaos and had over 70% turnout. A referendum does need to be executed before it is too late. The chaos is starting to grow, but the interesting thing about the past three elections in Iraq is that they were unplagued by chaos and had over 70% turnout. A referendum does need to be executed before it is too late.

]]> By: slc http://peteashdown.org/journal/2006/08/31/how-to-win-a-war/comment-page-1/#comment-9321 slc Mon, 30 Oct 2006 06:00:56 +0000 http://peteashdown.org/journal/?p=94#comment-9321 I'd love to see a clean and broad Iraqi vote on this issue. I don't know how that's possible. This is the one point that I get stuck on. Ashdown, you say we need to let the Iraqi's tell us when they want us outta there. I want us out, right now, this minute. But I cannot fathom how in all of the chaos, with gobal interests bearing down upon this piece of real estate... a true and clean voting process could take place. I’d love to see a clean and broad Iraqi vote on this issue. I don’t know how that’s possible. This is the one point that I get stuck on. Ashdown, you say we need to let the Iraqi’s tell us when they want us outta there. I want us out, right now, this minute. But I cannot fathom how in all of the chaos, with gobal interests bearing down upon this piece of real estate… a true and clean voting process could take place.

]]> By: Derrick http://peteashdown.org/journal/2006/08/31/how-to-win-a-war/comment-page-1/#comment-3958 Derrick Thu, 21 Sep 2006 01:19:53 +0000 http://peteashdown.org/journal/?p=94#comment-3958 Just one thought, President Bush say's "Stay the course", yet abandoned the first course, which was hunting down the ones who caused 9-11 and switched to a course that had absolutly no involvement in it. And who's still running free and regrouping while we stay the course in Iraq? Just one thought,
President Bush say’s “Stay the course”, yet abandoned the first course, which was hunting down the ones who caused 9-11 and switched to a course that had absolutly no involvement in it. And who’s still running free and regrouping while we stay the course in Iraq?

]]> By: Joe http://peteashdown.org/journal/2006/08/31/how-to-win-a-war/comment-page-1/#comment-2256 Joe Sun, 10 Sep 2006 22:23:56 +0000 http://peteashdown.org/journal/?p=94#comment-2256 The USA already has 53 states, Iraq should not be added. The USA already has 53 states, Iraq should not be added.

]]> By: Carol Y http://peteashdown.org/journal/2006/08/31/how-to-win-a-war/comment-page-1/#comment-1733 Carol Y Tue, 05 Sep 2006 22:38:39 +0000 http://peteashdown.org/journal/?p=94#comment-1733 Unless we are absolutely ready to ramp up to an occupation force of 400,000 or even more, then the point is moot. We aren't going to win. The Iraqi government isn't going to win. Another strong-arm leader will rise and pull the country together by ripping through it knee deep in blood. I don't want to pay for the mess with one more American life or one more dime. My brother came home in a body bag 1963 when his fighter crashed. He looked like a torched Thanksgiving turkey with his limbs contracted to fetal position and his face burned completely off. And he died for what? Give me three good things that happened from 10 years of war in Vietnam. It's the same for Iraq. The administration knows exactly what it would take to "win" and Pete's outlined it above. Syria, Iran, Saudia Arabia, Jordan, and Egypt will not tolerate the slaughter because their own populations will not tolerate it. And if the big boys get involved, it's not going to be pretty. They're armed to the teeth and highly militarized. What we have got in Iraq--get this-- 2.5 superdomes (which hold 62,000 people) full of soldiers to cover an area the size of California. Are you ready for another draft? Are you ready for gas rationing? Are you ready for serious terrorism--not this bin-Laden-the-October-surprise type nuisance terrorism? Are you ready for crushing taxes because the administration can't Laffer Curve voodoo their way out of the cost of a real war? Call this immoral, illegal invasion what it is--a disaster--and come home. utahgirl Unless we are absolutely ready to ramp up to an occupation force of 400,000 or even more, then the point is moot. We aren’t going to win. The Iraqi government isn’t going to win. Another strong-arm leader will rise and pull the country together by ripping through it knee deep in blood.

I don’t want to pay for the mess with one more American life or one more dime. My brother came home in a body bag 1963 when his fighter crashed. He looked like a torched Thanksgiving turkey with his limbs contracted to fetal position and his face burned completely off. And he died for what? Give me three good things that happened from 10 years of war in Vietnam. It’s the same for Iraq.

The administration knows exactly what it would take to “win” and Pete’s outlined it above. Syria, Iran, Saudia Arabia, Jordan, and Egypt will not tolerate the slaughter because their own populations will not tolerate it. And if the big boys get involved, it’s not going to be pretty. They’re armed to the teeth and highly militarized. What we have got in Iraq–get this– 2.5 superdomes (which hold 62,000 people) full of soldiers to cover an area the size of California. Are you ready for another draft? Are you ready for gas rationing? Are you ready for serious terrorism–not this bin-Laden-the-October-surprise type nuisance terrorism? Are you ready for crushing taxes because the administration can’t Laffer Curve voodoo their way out of the cost of a real war?

Call this immoral, illegal invasion what it is–a disaster–and come home.

utahgirl

]]> By: Shiny http://peteashdown.org/journal/2006/08/31/how-to-win-a-war/comment-page-1/#comment-1695 Shiny Tue, 05 Sep 2006 17:19:24 +0000 http://peteashdown.org/journal/?p=94#comment-1695 As nice an idea as asking the Iraqi people to vote for themselves sounds, I agree with Darrell - it's impractical in the real world, although for a slightly different point than his. While it's entirely possible that the Iraqis would be more afraid of having the US leave than stay for other compulsions, that's exactly the point of the poll as I see it - to see whether or not they're confident enough in themselves to be willing to go it on their own. However, the main problem to my mind is not that they'll be too afraid to see the US go, it's that they'll be more afraid to see it stay. I don't mean that the US is a bad influence or anything, but that no outfit of "freedom fighters" is going to be sitting idly while such a poll is carried out; they'll do their best to see that it goes their way. While the much of the western world may see this as ridiculous, the sad truth is that it happens a great deal more often than we care to think about. Look at India - in Bihar (it's an Indian state), a corrupt and inefficient politician (who was widely acknowledged as such) used strongarm tactics to stay in power for over 15 years. If that can happen in a supposedly vibrant democracy, what about a war-torn country surrounded by hostile neighbors and filled with "freedom fighters"? It's entirely possible the people would vote *against their will* for the US to leave. And what then? As nice an idea as asking the Iraqi people to vote for themselves sounds, I agree with Darrell – it’s impractical in the real world, although for a slightly different point than his. While it’s entirely possible that the Iraqis would be more afraid of having the US leave than stay for other compulsions, that’s exactly the point of the poll as I see it – to see whether or not they’re confident enough in themselves to be willing to go it on their own. However, the main problem to my mind is not that they’ll be too afraid to see the US go, it’s that they’ll be more afraid to see it stay. I don’t mean that the US is a bad influence or anything, but that no outfit of “freedom fighters” is going to be sitting idly while such a poll is carried out; they’ll do their best to see that it goes their way. While the much of the western world may see this as ridiculous, the sad truth is that it happens a great deal more often than we care to think about. Look at India – in Bihar (it’s an Indian state), a corrupt and inefficient politician (who was widely acknowledged as such) used strongarm tactics to stay in power for over 15 years. If that can happen in a supposedly vibrant democracy, what about a war-torn country surrounded by hostile neighbors and filled with “freedom fighters”? It’s entirely possible the people would vote *against their will* for the US to leave. And what then?

]]> By: Pete Ashdown http://peteashdown.org/journal/2006/08/31/how-to-win-a-war/comment-page-1/#comment-1680 Pete Ashdown Tue, 05 Sep 2006 15:12:52 +0000 http://peteashdown.org/journal/?p=94#comment-1680 TuxGirl: I do not want another post Soviet Afghanistan. That is why I think the best judges of the situation are the Iraqi people. The only way to understand when the "right" time is, is to put the question to the people it affects the most. TuxGirl: I do not want another post Soviet Afghanistan. That is why I think the best judges of the situation are the Iraqi people. The only way to understand when the “right” time is, is to put the question to the people it affects the most.

]]> By: TuxGirl http://peteashdown.org/journal/2006/08/31/how-to-win-a-war/comment-page-1/#comment-1678 TuxGirl Tue, 05 Sep 2006 15:06:02 +0000 http://peteashdown.org/journal/?p=94#comment-1678 How do you recommend that we pull out of Iraq without causing significant destabilization in the Middle East? Power abhors a vacuum. If we pull out too quickly, I think we will end up with many more problems than we'll have if we stay in there until the Iraqi government is strong enough to support itself. How do you recommend that we pull out of Iraq without causing significant destabilization in the Middle East? Power abhors a vacuum. If we pull out too quickly, I think we will end up with many more problems than we’ll have if we stay in there until the Iraqi government is strong enough to support itself.

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