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	<title>Comments on: The End of Free XMission Wireless</title>
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	<link>http://peteashdown.org/journal/2008/01/24/the-end-of-free-xmission-wireless/</link>
	<description>Fast Forward the Future</description>
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		<title>By: Pete Ashdown&#8217;s Journal &#187; No Warrant Needed</title>
		<link>http://peteashdown.org/journal/2008/01/24/the-end-of-free-xmission-wireless/comment-page-1/#comment-41563</link>
		<dc:creator>Pete Ashdown&#8217;s Journal &#187; No Warrant Needed</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 23 Feb 2010 22:36:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://peteashdown.org/journal/2008/01/24/the-end-of-free-xmission-wireless/#comment-41563</guid>
		<description>[...] Brad &#8220;Ban All Free Wireless Internet&#8221; Daw and our Constitution-thumping Attorney General, Mark Shurtleff believe otherwise. They believe [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Brad &#8220;Ban All Free Wireless Internet&#8221; Daw and our Constitution-thumping Attorney General, Mark Shurtleff believe otherwise. They believe [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Zed</title>
		<link>http://peteashdown.org/journal/2008/01/24/the-end-of-free-xmission-wireless/comment-page-1/#comment-38904</link>
		<dc:creator>Zed</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 11 Feb 2008 22:33:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://peteashdown.org/journal/2008/01/24/the-end-of-free-xmission-wireless/#comment-38904</guid>
		<description>a good write up on this is over at &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.pbs.org/teachers/learning.now/2008/02/utah_bill_would_block_wifi_acc.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;http://www.pbs.org/teachers/learning.now/2008/02/utah_bill_would_block_wifi_acc.html&lt;/a&gt;

I posted your article at my workplace (the library) and everyone was floored at the bill.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>a good write up on this is over at <a href="http://www.pbs.org/teachers/learning.now/2008/02/utah_bill_would_block_wifi_acc.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.pbs.org/teachers/learning.now/2008/02/utah_bill_would_block_wifi_acc.html</a></p>
<p>I posted your article at my workplace (the library) and everyone was floored at the bill.</p>
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		<title>By: Anonymous</title>
		<link>http://peteashdown.org/journal/2008/01/24/the-end-of-free-xmission-wireless/comment-page-1/#comment-38860</link>
		<dc:creator>Anonymous</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 06 Feb 2008 19:52:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://peteashdown.org/journal/2008/01/24/the-end-of-free-xmission-wireless/#comment-38860</guid>
		<description>There is an article on Ars-technica about the bill.

http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20080205-former-sco-chair-behind-utah-wifi-age-verification-proposal.html

This whole anti-porn movement in Utah has got something seriously wrong with it.  It and the anti-terrorism movement have something in common: the lunatic idea that we can control this stuff.

&quot;We can&#039;t keep weapons out of prisons; we can&#039;t possibly expect to keep them out of airports.&quot;

http://www.schneier.com/blog/archives/2006/08/prison_shivs.html

It is obvious that laws can&#039;t keep drugs away from kids.  So instead of making every possible drug ingredient illegal, the schools try to educate students of the ill affects of drugs and hope the students choose the best.  Why don&#039;t we take a similar tact with porn?  I think the fundamental flaw in these guys&#039; thinking is that they don&#039;t believe kids can say no to porn.  If they don&#039;t believe kids abstain from porn, these are clearly not the people who should be making laws concerning kids or porn.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There is an article on Ars-technica about the bill.</p>
<p><a href="http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20080205-former-sco-chair-behind-utah-wifi-age-verification-proposal.html" rel="nofollow">http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20080205-former-sco-chair-behind-utah-wifi-age-verification-proposal.html</a></p>
<p>This whole anti-porn movement in Utah has got something seriously wrong with it.  It and the anti-terrorism movement have something in common: the lunatic idea that we can control this stuff.</p>
<p>&#8220;We can&#8217;t keep weapons out of prisons; we can&#8217;t possibly expect to keep them out of airports.&#8221;</p>
<p><a href="http://www.schneier.com/blog/archives/2006/08/prison_shivs.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.schneier.com/blog/archives/2006/08/prison_shivs.html</a></p>
<p>It is obvious that laws can&#8217;t keep drugs away from kids.  So instead of making every possible drug ingredient illegal, the schools try to educate students of the ill affects of drugs and hope the students choose the best.  Why don&#8217;t we take a similar tact with porn?  I think the fundamental flaw in these guys&#8217; thinking is that they don&#8217;t believe kids can say no to porn.  If they don&#8217;t believe kids abstain from porn, these are clearly not the people who should be making laws concerning kids or porn.</p>
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		<title>By: Jonathon Montgomery</title>
		<link>http://peteashdown.org/journal/2008/01/24/the-end-of-free-xmission-wireless/comment-page-1/#comment-38859</link>
		<dc:creator>Jonathon Montgomery</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 06 Feb 2008 10:36:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://peteashdown.org/journal/2008/01/24/the-end-of-free-xmission-wireless/#comment-38859</guid>
		<description>I have carefully reviewed the bill and there are some problems that may not be so apparent. 

First, in response to a comment that Dave made &quot;the bill doesnâ€™t apply to private or residential internet access.&quot;

This bill most certainly will apply to a great number of private or residential wireless networks. Letâ€™s read this very carefully:

&quot;(3) This section does not apply to a person who maintains a wireless network within the person&#039;s private residence to provide personal wireless Internet access.&quot;

If you are providing wireless access (intentionally or not) to anyone other than yourself, even from your home you can be held liable under this proposed law.

Second, Matt Nelson asked &quot;I wonder how other providers of wireless internet access, such as AT&amp;T wireless, Verizon, Sprint, etc. feel about this bill.&quot; I would say this is a perfectly reasonable question as it would most certainly apply to these and other carriers. There is no limitation on the type of wireless access, in other words it is not limited to WiFi.

I agree that the unintended consequences are substantial, and this is putting it lightly. Not only will it affect XMission&#039;s free wireless, any owner of an open wireless network, etc., but it may also have a dramatic impact on the many conventions and business meetings that are held in the state each year. Scare away even a few conventions and there is a potential tax revenue loss (not to mention impact on local businesses) that could reach well into the millions.

Personally, and as an Information Security Consultant, I have many concerns about open internet access by any means, including wirelessly. The solution is not to create new laws that limit the people; the solution is for parents to take some responsibility, and ultimately the child to be responsible for his or her own actions.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I have carefully reviewed the bill and there are some problems that may not be so apparent. </p>
<p>First, in response to a comment that Dave made &#8220;the bill doesnâ€™t apply to private or residential internet access.&#8221;</p>
<p>This bill most certainly will apply to a great number of private or residential wireless networks. Letâ€™s read this very carefully:</p>
<p>&#8220;(3) This section does not apply to a person who maintains a wireless network within the person&#8217;s private residence to provide personal wireless Internet access.&#8221;</p>
<p>If you are providing wireless access (intentionally or not) to anyone other than yourself, even from your home you can be held liable under this proposed law.</p>
<p>Second, Matt Nelson asked &#8220;I wonder how other providers of wireless internet access, such as AT&amp;T wireless, Verizon, Sprint, etc. feel about this bill.&#8221; I would say this is a perfectly reasonable question as it would most certainly apply to these and other carriers. There is no limitation on the type of wireless access, in other words it is not limited to WiFi.</p>
<p>I agree that the unintended consequences are substantial, and this is putting it lightly. Not only will it affect XMission&#8217;s free wireless, any owner of an open wireless network, etc., but it may also have a dramatic impact on the many conventions and business meetings that are held in the state each year. Scare away even a few conventions and there is a potential tax revenue loss (not to mention impact on local businesses) that could reach well into the millions.</p>
<p>Personally, and as an Information Security Consultant, I have many concerns about open internet access by any means, including wirelessly. The solution is not to create new laws that limit the people; the solution is for parents to take some responsibility, and ultimately the child to be responsible for his or her own actions.</p>
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		<title>By: No more Free Wifi in SLC?</title>
		<link>http://peteashdown.org/journal/2008/01/24/the-end-of-free-xmission-wireless/comment-page-1/#comment-38821</link>
		<dc:creator>No more Free Wifi in SLC?</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 01 Feb 2008 16:24:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://peteashdown.org/journal/2008/01/24/the-end-of-free-xmission-wireless/#comment-38821</guid>
		<description>[...] just noticed this article on Pete Ashdown&#039;s blog. To summarize, there&#039;s a bill (HB 139) that requires anyone providing [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] just noticed this article on Pete Ashdown&#8217;s blog. To summarize, there&#8217;s a bill (HB 139) that requires anyone providing [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Chris Wilkowske</title>
		<link>http://peteashdown.org/journal/2008/01/24/the-end-of-free-xmission-wireless/comment-page-1/#comment-38800</link>
		<dc:creator>Chris Wilkowske</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Jan 2008 06:16:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://peteashdown.org/journal/2008/01/24/the-end-of-free-xmission-wireless/#comment-38800</guid>
		<description>I realize this is off subject, but am wondering if you are planning to endorse any presidential candidate?  Personally, I am voting for Obama.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I realize this is off subject, but am wondering if you are planning to endorse any presidential candidate?  Personally, I am voting for Obama.</p>
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		<title>By: Matt Nelson</title>
		<link>http://peteashdown.org/journal/2008/01/24/the-end-of-free-xmission-wireless/comment-page-1/#comment-38799</link>
		<dc:creator>Matt Nelson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Jan 2008 01:34:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://peteashdown.org/journal/2008/01/24/the-end-of-free-xmission-wireless/#comment-38799</guid>
		<description>Mr. Ashdown, thank you for providing wireless hotspots.  I use them and I appreciate your service.  I&#039;m sorry that the some in the legislature are hell-bent on kicking Utah back to the dark ages.  I understand the sponsor&#039;s desire to prevent minors from access harmful material, but this bill is not the answer.  I suspect it isn&#039;t hard for most kids to find some open network their neighbor has left open.  Should the bill pass and you shut down the service, I would understand.  

The bill appears to have several legal problems, most importantly some First Amendment issues.  Note that the total aggregate fine is $25,000.  This substantial amount of money, but not unlimited liability either.

Also, I wonder how other providers of wireless internet access, such as AT&amp;T wireless, Verizon, Sprint, etc. feel about this bill.  I suspect the bill is intended to apply to IEEE 802.11 based networks, but nothing in the bill specifies this.  (Perhaps the &quot;big boys&quot; can just pay the $25,000 tax (fine) and not worry about the hassle of fighting it.)

I plan to stop by the senate building Thursday afternoon to see what unravels.  Best of luck.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Mr. Ashdown, thank you for providing wireless hotspots.  I use them and I appreciate your service.  I&#8217;m sorry that the some in the legislature are hell-bent on kicking Utah back to the dark ages.  I understand the sponsor&#8217;s desire to prevent minors from access harmful material, but this bill is not the answer.  I suspect it isn&#8217;t hard for most kids to find some open network their neighbor has left open.  Should the bill pass and you shut down the service, I would understand.  </p>
<p>The bill appears to have several legal problems, most importantly some First Amendment issues.  Note that the total aggregate fine is $25,000.  This substantial amount of money, but not unlimited liability either.</p>
<p>Also, I wonder how other providers of wireless internet access, such as AT&amp;T wireless, Verizon, Sprint, etc. feel about this bill.  I suspect the bill is intended to apply to IEEE 802.11 based networks, but nothing in the bill specifies this.  (Perhaps the &#8220;big boys&#8221; can just pay the $25,000 tax (fine) and not worry about the hassle of fighting it.)</p>
<p>I plan to stop by the senate building Thursday afternoon to see what unravels.  Best of luck.</p>
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		<title>By: Mike Salazar</title>
		<link>http://peteashdown.org/journal/2008/01/24/the-end-of-free-xmission-wireless/comment-page-1/#comment-38795</link>
		<dc:creator>Mike Salazar</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 29 Jan 2008 03:48:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://peteashdown.org/journal/2008/01/24/the-end-of-free-xmission-wireless/#comment-38795</guid>
		<description>I was listening to the show today and heard this. I was outraged at the Representative Brad Daw. I am 21 and never once have I actually thought about writing something that bugged me but this I guess bugged me enough. what made me upset is Brad isnt lookin at this in the eyes of people who actually use the wi fi. I am actually at the down town library writing this, (not set up to be that way either). I think that XMission is doing good things for the community and to filter his wireless network isnt not effective, neither is the credit card idea. I think that Brad should teach school children about the internet and how to use it effective. Where is parent reponsiblity whats going to happen when they are 18? Can anyone say addiction? I can, it is a serious problem, also what if Brad spent more time in thinking about working with Pete in using something like a driver license check, because not everyone has a credit card. I am trying not to have carry one I have it but its called no debt, crazy too I know. Here is an idea lets have all the 18 yr olds get credit cards and promote spending they dont have! Crazy just crazy for someone in power to be that ignorant!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I was listening to the show today and heard this. I was outraged at the Representative Brad Daw. I am 21 and never once have I actually thought about writing something that bugged me but this I guess bugged me enough. what made me upset is Brad isnt lookin at this in the eyes of people who actually use the wi fi. I am actually at the down town library writing this, (not set up to be that way either). I think that XMission is doing good things for the community and to filter his wireless network isnt not effective, neither is the credit card idea. I think that Brad should teach school children about the internet and how to use it effective. Where is parent reponsiblity whats going to happen when they are 18? Can anyone say addiction? I can, it is a serious problem, also what if Brad spent more time in thinking about working with Pete in using something like a driver license check, because not everyone has a credit card. I am trying not to have carry one I have it but its called no debt, crazy too I know. Here is an idea lets have all the 18 yr olds get credit cards and promote spending they dont have! Crazy just crazy for someone in power to be that ignorant!</p>
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		<title>By: Luke</title>
		<link>http://peteashdown.org/journal/2008/01/24/the-end-of-free-xmission-wireless/comment-page-1/#comment-38793</link>
		<dc:creator>Luke</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 28 Jan 2008 21:53:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://peteashdown.org/journal/2008/01/24/the-end-of-free-xmission-wireless/#comment-38793</guid>
		<description>Thanks, Will read. But it still leaves the point that if you take away the access that is there for general use, there are still ways of accessing this information when you take it away.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks, Will read. But it still leaves the point that if you take away the access that is there for general use, there are still ways of accessing this information when you take it away.</p>
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		<title>By: Dave</title>
		<link>http://peteashdown.org/journal/2008/01/24/the-end-of-free-xmission-wireless/comment-page-1/#comment-38792</link>
		<dc:creator>Dave</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 28 Jan 2008 21:51:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://peteashdown.org/journal/2008/01/24/the-end-of-free-xmission-wireless/#comment-38792</guid>
		<description>Luke, the bill doesn&#039;t apply to private or residential internet access. The bill is quite short. I recommend you read its text here: http://le.utah.gov/~2008/bills/hbillint/hb0139.htm</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Luke, the bill doesn&#8217;t apply to private or residential internet access. The bill is quite short. I recommend you read its text here: <a href="http://le.utah.gov/~2008/bills/hbillint/hb0139.htm" rel="nofollow">http://le.utah.gov/~2008/bills/hbillint/hb0139.htm</a></p>
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